Optimism Meets Elevation: Building a Creative Career with Tyler Cartier
Summary:
In this episode, we delve into the creative journey of Tyler Cartier, a revered mentor and influential figure in the world of branding and design. Tyler shares his rich experiences working on high-profile projects including Microsoft, Amazon, and notably, the Space Needle. He discusses his unique approach to creativity and branding, particularly his memorable 'Space Lift' campaign for the Space Needle. The episode also covers Tyler's thoughts on the soulful essence of art, the limitations of AI in capturing true creativity, and the importance of remaining true to oneself. Finally, Tyler shares insights on transitioning into retirement while maintaining a creative spirit through painting and other endeavors, emphasizing the need for continuous personal growth and the power of sincere effort in all creative pursuits.
00:00 Introduction to Tyler Cartier
00:50 Tyler's Career Highlights
01:48 The Space Needle Project
05:42 Branding and Creativity Insights
10:17 Millstone Coffee and Creative Naming
12:25 The Art of Copywriting
16:05 AI vs. Human Creativity
20:00 Life After Retirement: Embracing Creativity
24:53 The Reality of Creative Work
25:34 The Tangibility of Starbucks vs. Software
26:21 The Challenge of Writing for Software
27:14 The Importance of Sincerity in Work
28:34 Exploring Art Contests and Cafe Art
30:34 The Joy of Sharing Art
31:21 Encouraging Creative Expression
33:36 Balancing Creativity and Marketing
40:39 Advice for a Fulfilling Career
41:49 Flipping the Switch: A Personal Transformation
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Transcript:
This transcript is computer generated, please excuse any typos
[00:00:32] Laura: [00:00:00] And welcome to Tyler Cartier. Frankly, this is not a lot about paid media today. This is gonna be more focused on you know, somebody I consider like a mentor and, you know, always looked up to from a creative standpoint. And that's Tyler. Tyler worked at Strike Plate.
He owned Stripe Plate for many, many years and he's worked on all sorts of accounts. [00:01:00] You know, Microsoft, Amazon, Nordstrom metropolitan Market with me. Carter Subaru. Most recently the Space Needle. Oh, millstone Coffee. So yeah, we're gonna kind of talk a little bit about that
but now Tyler is just doing very select work out there in the market, and he's doing lots of things that we would want to do once we retire, because work doesn't. Yeah, we don't wanna work forever. I know I don't wanna work forever.
I can't wait to be able to do what Tyler's doing, which is, you know, you'll see, we'll just walk through it. But lots of different things. 'cause when you're creative you just can't help it. You just gotta do it. All right, Tyler, so tell us just a little bit about like what's the number one project that you worked on that you, I'm still gonna make you talk about the space Needle, but, that you wanna [00:02:00] talk about like a little bit.
[00:02:02] Tyler: Well, the Space Needle probably is the one that I think used all the, like I say, the 64 box of crayons. You know, some, some spot projects. Rate eight, eight crayons. You know, you just kind of in and out. that was the whole deal, even with the little sharpener in the back that had, actually, that's 64 box had the whole, whole thing.
[00:02:21] Laura: God, I, I envy you.
[00:02:23] Tyler: anyway. in 99, I, I was very graciously invited to join the pitch for the Space Needle with Jack Anderson Hoel Anderson. So it was a Hoel Anderson. Through them, they invited me to join. So there were three of us, Jack and I and another woman were there to pitch the space needle to you know, propose what we could do for them and against three other.
Pretty well known and very highly regarded companies. And miraculously we got it. So in 99 and we started doing branding for the Space Needle. This is before they had completely redone the top house and we re renamed I [00:03:00] renamed the, the. The restaurant up there is Sky City and we did an entire branding campaign and that kept going up until really i'll, I'll steal a project for them once in a while.
It's probably been six to nine months before, maybe even a little longer, probably a year since I've done anything. They put in the two, the double elevators. That was all done independently for me. But the Space Needle was just a fantastic experience all the way around to par, pardon the pun.
[00:03:26] Laura: Did you do the big like sign that was on it when it was getting renovated?
[00:03:30] Tyler: Yes.
[00:03:31] Laura: so cool. What did it say again?
[00:03:32] Tyler: Well, I'll, I'll come to that because that kind of was the Coda, Coda
Gras. Uh, so, so in about 2014, 15, 16, 17 area, it's kinda lost a little bit. They went a bit, did and did a complete remodel upstairs, and they made a glass floor. So you could walk out and then get the glass floor. And so during that time, I wanna say it was a nine to 12 month remodel.
And it's interesting because the [00:04:00] Space Needle was built in just over 12 months and 13 months. And a lot of people don't know this, and I'm probably giving you a little more detail, but I always find it fascinating. The Space Needle was built on an old site of a firehouse. So that Seattle Center property was sort of owned by the city and then seated to the city or owned by sort of the government because it was a sorting out area in World War I for, for troops and whatnot.
And I'm pretty sure I got my facts here, and that was seated to the city of Seattle, which they made the Seattle Center, but the space needles a private enterprise. So they bought that piece of property. Where the old firehouse was, and while they were digging the foundation, they found an own horseshoe from where the horses that used to pull the fire engines, which they put over, the, put over the door of the construction.
which I thought was always just a really cool, neat, neat thing. And they built it in about 13 months. So the remodel was a little less than that, if I'm not mistaken. And during that time it was kind of an unsightly, I mean, just had a bunch of construction up there. And so I came up with this idea of wrapping it and [00:05:00] we wrapped about, wrapped it with the statement of we're getting a space lift.
And we had some graphics and people really got a kick outta that. So we sort of turned a, a little bit of a, you know, a, an eyesore or whatever, kind of a unique thing into sort of a fun thing. And one night on Monday Night Football, they were doing the fly in Seattle was at CenturyLink. Quest probably at the time they do the fly in and the B roll.
'cause they shot that earlier in the day and they came past the Space Needle and they saw that and they commented about it and they got a kick out of it. My wife's like, you're famous, you're trying to, not really, not really, but it was probably the biggest thrill I had that day that that week. So anyway, that was, that was a
[00:05:38] Laura: Yeah,
[00:05:39] Tyler: real
fun thing.
[00:05:40] Laura: really big right now.
[00:05:41] Tyler: Yeah. Yeah. And then the thing about the space Needle that I, I wanted to always stress, and it's been a while since I've really delved into this, but I always try to find what I would say, and again, I don't profess to be, I wanna start hearing by saying. I don't profess to be the expert on everything. I just kind of have my way of [00:06:00] doing it and with the teams I'd work with and always with a really good group of people, a lot of times it was their idea that we just sort of enhanced.
And there's that old adage, which I love and I like, I love to use it because it keeps you humble is a good, a good idea, doesn't care who had it. I just love that expression. A good idea, doesn't care who had it. There's a good idea out there. Humble yourself to the fact that that's a better idea and it'll make every everybody better, and more importantly, it'll make the project better.
So that, that said the Space Needle was a fantastic experience that used all the branding elements and what we had about the Space Needle that was so key is obviously we had elevation. That height and that viewpoint, nobody else could touch it, so. The fact that it was this mid-century that was the big thing, and it was Googie architecture.
So in 62, Googie was a type of architecture named after a restaurant in LA that had those mid modern shapes. And I, I still like that architecture. You see a lot of it in Palm Springs. [00:07:00] So the Space Needle was really an icon of Googie architecture. Much like Art Deco or Art Nouveau googie architecture, mid-century has become a real icon of architecture and it's still that clean. Unseemly lines are just really outstanding. And that Space Needle is now, was built in 62. So what is it, 63 years old? 63 years
old. That's still the most, it's a spectacular, it doesn't show its age. There's a lot of high, high elevated, you know, I think San Antonio has one, Toronto has one. They're all right. But the Space Needle is, is, is, is just an icon of, of, of inter, of mid-century design. Spectacular. So we wanted to really keep that.
Mid-century optimism. Mid-Century 62 was a real time of mid-century optimism. It was before a lot of the, the many things that made the sixties so tumultuous happened. People were looking towards the future. It was the spaced time. So there was, you saw it in the, in the movies. You saw it in the cartoons.
As a kid, you saw all things, everything was space-based. So. [00:08:00] Very optimistic, very clean. The future was whatever we wanna make it. So we always built on that optimism for the space needle and the elevation. So we had the whole spirited sign that really was our, our benchmark. I always call it. It's sort of the, it's the icon or it's the, it's the, what I'm say the pledge you say, which you slap.
You slap on the way out from onto the field, from the locker room. You know, you slap that sign wind today or whatever ours
was. Optimism meets e elevation.
[00:08:28] Laura: Oh
[00:08:28] Tyler: Optimism meets elevation. So that was our inspiration. If it didn't fit that optimism meets Elevation Credo. We didn't do it because it was, it could be usurped by somebody else that was quintessentially a space needle and you couldn't usurp it.
So that was a fantastic, and we still use that credo. And again, if you can get it down to two, to three, to four words and not have to say it in a, in a, in a PowerPoint presentation or something, that is your way point, I call it the burning coal. That is when you're out in the darkness and your torch goes out, you come back to that [00:09:00] optimism, meets inspiration, boom.
Light your light, your torch again, and it gives you that guidance to move forward.
[00:09:05] Laura: It's like a brand, your brand mission or something? yeah.
[00:09:08] Tyler: It is,
[00:09:09] Laura: Statement
[00:09:10] Tyler: yeah. It's, it's that, it's the, it's the burning coal. It is that focal point, that focal point. Always go back to that, that that's your way point. It's like you don't know where you're on your hike. You can always buy, get back to your car, you know, always remember you can get, you eventually get back to your house, but if you can get back to your car, you'll find out where you, you know, you can know where you can go out into the outside and still kind of have that, that focal point. So the Space Needle again, couldn't great people. Mary B, Karen Olson, Ron Vart, the CEO. Just really great people to work with and always, it was a group effort and again, a good idea. Doesn't care who had it. A lot of times they'd credit me with an idea that was theirs and I was perfectly happy to share that and and appreciate that they'd brought that.
'cause we were really for the best. And everybody, here's the one last thing I'll say. Everybody loved the Space Needle. . We didn't have to [00:10:00] be talked into enjoying this process. We couldn't wait, you know? 'cause again, it's a world class and global.
Icon. I keep using that term so everybody knows it. Go to Paris, Bangkok,
Bangladesh, anywhere they know it's space needle. So then we were talking, you mentioned Min Millstone. I'll just make a comment about Millstone. Millstone is kind of, was a, a whole bean coffee company in Seattle. And really, again outstanding people they just let us do our thing.
They were from that. Mindset of, you guys know what you're doing, we'll give you all the information you need. We'll wanna be involved, but you're the experts and, and take it from there. And, and it was a fantastic experience. So they, we really had to educate a lot of people about whole being. Coffees and bins.
They were the first ones to do that. And supermarkets and it were, they re exceptionally successful. And I, there's one anecdote from that that I think is really a, a, a [00:11:00] main reasons when I started getting to naming. Is they had a holiday blend
[00:11:06] Laura: Hmm
[00:11:06] Tyler: everybody else had holiday, holiday blend. That time was Seattle Best Coffee Milk Starbucks.
Everybody had a holiday blend, so they wanted to have something with a little more flare and panache, but it couldn't be. It had to be sort of non-denominational. Had to just have the spirit of the
season. So I just kind of, this was, it was just kind of on the fly. I was walking down the hall and I was go into another guy's office and I thought, oh, I think that's kind of a neat idea.
So I poked my head in the account executive's office and I said, how about Jingle Java? She goes, oh, I'll run it by him. They said, oh, we love it. That thing sold. It was just the name, you know, holiday blend. The holidays was about a six or eight number seller. Jingle Java number one, boom. It would same coffee, just the name.
And again, it had that alliteration, had that bounce, it had that kind of fun smile. It had that wink millstone Coffee was very approachable. We wanted make sure, 'cause you're buying whole beans, you've gotta [00:12:00] grind them at home. What? So we wanted to make very much approachable, and it had to have that little wink, that smile and jingle.
Java delivered that. So those are, those are the little subterranean elements going below that kind of the, the crest is that little statement, that little name, but, but there's a lot of elements going on below that, but that one kind of wrote itself that was low hanging coffee
beans.
[00:12:21] Laura: that. I love it when it breaks itself. It just, just comes to you. I, one thing I remember with you is that we were at, and this is just something that when you work with a pro, you learn, you know, so much. And I remember being in the recording studio for metropolitan Market, and we were doing pama, I believe it was pama, and you were, you know.
You had, first of all, your copywriting was, you know, absolutely the best and, and still is. But you know, Dr, what was it? Dribble down your chin, [00:13:00] sweetness or goodness or something. It was just like, it was so descriptive on that you could taste, you know, you could taste the sweetness of the peach just based on your words.
But then when, when we were trying to, we were in a studio trying to get. The voice talent to say it just the right way, and you had this tactic that I loved that was just like basically taking all the pressure off that person. You would just say, okay, I think we got what we need. You know what, just do it one more time for, for, you know.
Shit's a giggle. You know what I mean? Like
for just just yeah, you just like, and it just took all the, all the stress out of that per, they just like nailed it and it was like, and then also do it. Can you smile when you do that?
[00:13:49] Tyler: Yeah.
[00:13:50] Laura: But those were two really cool lessons that I learned, you know, that I still use today when I'm talking to people like,
[00:13:58] Tyler: That's great. And I [00:14:00] learned that from other pros. Trust me, I was not. The genesis for me, I learned that through synthesizing smart people, watching them and listening and learning, and that was a good one. One of the things I did come up with, I have to say, that was it was to overcome where I could be, where I could maybe have something missing was at the end of a meeting, a lot of times sort of going to to, to creative meetings.
I would always say, what is it? At the end of this meeting, I'd always say, what is it you think you were trying to tell us? That I don't think we were listening to or that maybe you don't think we heard correctly, and nine times outta 10 a client will go, you know. I think you did well. There was one thing I think when I mentioned blo, you know, whatever.
You guys didn't take notes on that. I think that's real important. Great. Good. I'm glad we didn't miss that now because we humbled ourself again to, to listen. And you gave us some great insights because the next meeting you would've had that in the back of your head and it would've been missing. So now we're good.
And it's important 'cause [00:15:00] you know your business way better than we ever will. So that was a, a, an enlightening thing to have to, to sort of say at the end of meetings.
[00:15:08] Laura: Yeah, I was, we, we had a podcast recently with a research firm, hemispheres, and he was saying that, that because for a living he has to get people to talk right. For focus groups and surveys and stuff. And he said that's the way to do it, is like, what's the one thing you think we just saying? The one thing, you know, it helps them saying.
What are some things that you know, you feel, you know, it's just like this one thing
[00:15:31] Tyler: Well, and
[00:15:32] Laura: in on it and,
[00:15:33] Tyler: That's the key is zeroing in. It's, it's, there is one thing that we maybe didn't hear you and so you're sort of signaling to the client that you don't have to be nice here. We may not have listened to you correctly, so go ahead and just lay it on the line. So now you've established this isn't done for an ulterior motive.
This is done to really make the product better and, and the system, and the solution better. But what's something that you really feel passionate about that we may have missed? That can be a real [00:16:00] good undercurrent. That helps.
you said something about Met Market and I, I'll just touch on that.
I'm gonna wing this because this is off the cuff, but it, I've been ruminating about AI and you know, what, aI is gonna do in regard to copywriting and all kinds of design, and I think what AI misses, and I haven't had a lot of experience with it, but my, my take is that it's missing, and this is an easy thing to say, but the soulfulness, the, the senses, it'll describe things, but it doesn't bring up memories because it can't really conjure memories.
It can't really, you know, if you're talking about PAMA in the northwest.
That's gonna feel a lot different than it is gonna be like, you know, I don't know in Northeast Canada or something,
or, or this, you know, it's, it's gonna feel, it's gonna feel because it, it, you know that, that sensation, the feeling, the taste, the smell, those kind of things, they can, again, they describe it, but they're missing that.
That little quirkiness that brings that [00:17:00] soulfulness
into it, which, and I don't know if that'll go away. It probably will more so as it goes forward, but it's something I can, I think we can all still kind of tell AI copy versus real and, and a YouTube video where you go, oh, this is a great city. Like if you wanna travel and what, what's Paris like?
And go, oh, that's AI generated versus a, a
[00:17:20] Laura: Yes.
Yes. that's what it is. That's what I was gonna say. The local feeling and the, and, and the, you know, and just the right kind of pop, pop culture, if you're making a reference or just the right amount of, 'cause they're, they're not, they're not in our heads really. You know, and it's like, especially when you're talking about, you know, a specific audience or whatever, it's like, I feel like.
You know, for example, I think I told you I was in the acapella group and I've tried to, I've tried to get ideas from it, like, you know, what are some things that Santa Claus does , at the North Pole, right? And so. It would just be generic, but then I would like try to prompt it to [00:18:00] make it funny.
'cause my stuff is funny and it just was never, ever good. And I'm like, I guess I gotta put the work in. And I did. But it's just, you know, it localizing it making it have that, like you said, that hook or whatever the, the, the thing that really I don't know what you called it, the smile, the nod, the, the thing that makes people go, ah.
[00:18:26] Tyler: when you were saying that, I was thinking it's like a core, and when you go back to Paris, if you see an AI description of Paris versus, say a woman who's walked around Paris her whole life and knows it, and there's just gonna be something that's gonna come from that, that you can't.
You can't duplicate right yet. You can't,
you can't
AI yet.
[00:18:46] Laura: I'm just kidding.
[00:18:47] Tyler: I don't know, maybe just the idea of you know, a night where you didn't get enough sleep and you see the rain puddles and you see the, the, the, the, you know, the, the reflection of the arctic triumph in [00:19:00] the, in the rain. And you're thinking about how much, how much your day's, how, how long your day's gonna be.
Just something
[00:19:05] Laura: Yeah.
[00:19:06] Tyler: you know, that's how you feel like when you go to work and you know that what that feeling is.
[00:19:11] Laura: I love that.
[00:19:12] Tyler: We,
[00:19:12] Laura: yeah, they're not gonna do metaphor Cool. Metaphors like that, or,
[00:19:16] Tyler: they're just, they're just not gonna have that, that honest, like you say, say this woman is mid, mid thirties, or whatever. She is gonna have that real true. Or somebody that grew up in Greenwich Village, New York, or on the farm in Oklahoma, they're just gonna have a much more deeper, and they're gonna go off, they're gonna go off the beaten path a little bit
[00:19:35] Laura: Yeah.
[00:19:36] Tyler: that's gonna make you feel like, oh yeah, that person.
That person really lived that it's harder to do than to say, I mean, you know, but, but I can tell you when you write something and you have a deep passion and, and appreciation for it, something comes out of that, that you can tell that that's not ai and that's gonna be more and more important.
[00:20:00] Anyway,
[00:20:00] Laura: Yeah, let's talk a little, just a little bit about what you're doing now. A lot about it. I saw last time we chatted, we had coffee, and you had shown me some of your art and I am just like, how do you, you know, when you have time? I always think about this, like, if I had time, if I wasn't working, what would I be doing?
Because I, you know, I can't wait to retire. That's gonna be great. You are doing all that kind of creative shit that you always think you're gonna do when you retire and you're doing it. You're not sitting at home watching tv. You're not, still working all the time. You're actually doing truly creative things that are coming from your soul that you have now been able to put your attention to.
And now you're, you know, writing books and, and painting and selling really good art. It's different and what is, yeah, tell me a little bit about what that's like.
[00:20:55] Tyler: Well, the briefest way I could put it was I tell people, and again, I'm not being [00:21:00] falsely humble here, I'm just telling you the truth. When I write I say I, I have to have total quiet. It has to be really of space that I feel comfortable, and it has to be quiet because I have to concentrate so much. I, I just have to, I just have to use everything in my power to to, to make it right when I paint. Sirens can be going off. I listen to a lot of music when I paint. It's just much more freeing. I don't have that concentration, so it lets something in me that I didn't have. So, There was a great writer and I wish I could remember who it was, but they said, oh, writing's easy. You just open a vein and let it bleed on the, on the keyboard.
You know, it's just, it's just it's a tough thing to do.
Yeah, I mean, it's just you, you, you're really pouring, you're literally pouring your soul into it if you're, you know, if you're writing novels. And then just because apropos of nothing. But I always love this quote where Truman Capote read this one book, and he said, that's not writing, that's typing.
Which I think is beautiful. So writing, you know, you really have to put a lot of effort [00:22:00] into it. Obviously what I'm trying to say, but for art, I just. Find something that takes me to where I want to go and I'm off and running, and again, I'm just in a whole nother world and
it's a and and I think, I guess my point is, there's two things I wanna say here is I think you can, this is a key.
I think you can knit those things into. As you, you can knit from your working life into your retirement. You don't have to do this. A lot of people do this, and they, they don't know where to go. That's my take again, this is just my take. I think you can knit those in if you like, if you like writing, maybe on a weekend a couple of times you go to a, you go to a coffee shop and you start the novel, you start laying it out a little bit.
You, you start knitting that in. You know, I was saying, I think in our, our coffee. You don't wanna just go from zero to the off ramp because you're gonna get passed and you might get rear-ended. You wanna have some speed going into the off ramp.
[00:22:53] Laura: Yep.
[00:22:54] Tyler: That way you've got some momentum going to the off ramp and you have a place to go versus just kind of pulling over to the side of the road [00:23:00] and standing there. So that's my take. And so with me painting, I, I thought of this earlier. When we were talking about the heart and soul, I did a painting that just, I'm, I'm really pleased to say, sold in Edmonds at the Edmonds Art Festival. it's a really cool art festival and I've been really fortunate to be in that a few years, and one sold like the first day and I, I don't charge much.
That's another reason I don't. Price. My paintings, there's, there's really good artists there. I price mine like a marketing guy. Like, yeah, I think somebody would pay that. But, But, But, that painting, I I was more important for me to somebody that wanted that painting and, and got it and liked it
and wanted it in their home.
, And what that painting did was, it was called Road Trip Morning and it was this diner and the shadows were really long and you could feel, you could feel that morning. Where it's a, it's bright and you didn't sleep that great. You stayed at some hotel. Maybe the pillow smelled weird. [00:24:00] You know, one of those hotels and the, the, the, the shower, you know?
[00:24:04] Laura: take your socks
[00:24:05] Tyler: You don't take your socks off. You got in the shower and you just thought, I better not look anywhere. I'm just gonna take a shower here. And you got there and you got that cup of coffee and the gal comes over and there's music, there's country music a little too loud, and she's a little brassy and, and it's just, it's just got that, everything's just really bright and the shadows are really long 'cause it's early and you got a long day ahead of you.
And I, I just have been there. We've all kind of been on those road trips, just kind of fun road trips. But you have that morning and that spoke meant it, it. I had a guy call me. He said, if you do anything more like that, 'cause he described it to me on the phone. I said, that's exactly what I was doing to do.
And he said, if you have, he, he was he saw that it had sold, but he called me and he said you know, I'd like to buy something else if you have something like that. And I thought, you know, and this is again, reality. I don't know. I, I, it has to be real. So I, I don't have anything yet, so I can't, I can't just whip something out.
It'll have to be something that, [00:25:00] again, I can't do it if it's not real for
me on that. But that's kind of how, that's kind of how I I try to paint and, you know, if I, if there's something that, anyway, I made my point.
[00:25:13] Laura: No, it's, as opposed to copywriting where you had to, where you're writing on demand for things that in sometimes, like you were saying, sometimes when you do software, it's like, there's only only so many fucking ways that I could say innovative, fast,
[00:25:32] Tyler: Yeah, it's very well put.
I think that segues to a key point. Software is a, I always say you gotta write through a piece of glass. Software is just a piece of glass. It's just something behind a piece of glass. Starbucks is the real deal. You go in, you smell it, you taste it.
The
heat. It's the heat of the cup. If the cup isn't hot enough, you know, the brand can fail just by when you pick it up. You have none of these things. With software,
you Eye appeal. You [00:26:00] see the people, you hear the music, Starbucks, the music in the background has a lot to do with the ambience, you know, so, so the Starbucks is the full gamut.
I always use that as an example.
[00:26:10] Laura: a good one.
[00:26:11] Tyler: It, it really is the full gamut. It's sight, smell, hearing, taste. and feel, because again, you know that coffee isn't hot enough or if it's not cold enough or whatever. So now how do you write a piece of software for, I don't know, some digital dude ad that makes things faster and you're talking through a piece of glass and it's on a website,
there's no touching.
[00:26:33] Laura: like soul or culture or
[00:26:35] Tyler: Exactly right. You have to do a lot of analogies because otherwise, what do you say? So you're talking now, you've got a piece of thin glass between you and that
software.
And I would say that that's true about all websites actually, because even a Starbucks website, you don't have the, the, the store experience.
You have a piece of glass, you have to write that brand through that piece of glass. You have to make that brand real through that [00:27:00] filter, that that thin slice of glass or a phone. You know, or whatever,
[00:27:04] Laura: Yeah.
[00:27:05] Tyler: that's where you have to make that magic translate so that they go past that portal and into that brand.
[00:27:11] Laura: Oh, this is so great.
[00:27:13] Tyler: I'm bloviating, let's be
honest, but um, I really do believe that it isn't hard for me. I don't have to look at notes because, you know, what's the old line again, this wasn't mine at all. You know? I think it was. I think it was Mark Twain. Always tell the truth. You don't have to remember your lies. You know,
[00:27:32] Laura: So true.
[00:27:32] Tyler: just, it's so true. You might as well tell the truth. It's a heck of a lot. Easy to
[00:27:35] Laura: It's so easy.
[00:27:37] Tyler: as you get older.
[00:27:38] Laura: I know. I'm too truthful, but that said, yeah, I don't have to, I don't have to remember anything.
[00:27:44] Tyler: Yeah, I mean, again if, if you know it's real you know, you're on the right track. If you're trying to write something that you think somebody else wants you to do or that you don't think the brand can do.
And it's easier to say when you're [00:28:00] self-employed because you can walk away. I, I, I didn't do it often, but I didn't do it very often at all.
But once in a while you see that the client, you know, they wanted to be something that they weren't, that was impossible. Not because, I had some big ethical concerns as much as it just, I, I. You know what? You're not gonna be an NFL pro player when you can't catch a football.
So
[00:28:22] Laura: Right.
[00:28:22] Tyler: let's talk about what you really are, because you're obviously doing okay. You're in business. Let's be real here. So
[00:28:29] Laura: I love that. Ugh. Exactly. I mean, it could apply that to everything. .
[00:28:34] Tyler: But let me say this, I, I'm gonna give a couple options for people to think about nowadays, if you have any art skills at all, and, and you like art, there's a new resource. And this, this has to do with a lot of different creative pursuits, but there's a research called Cafe Art.
And it's a clearinghouse. That'll tell you all the art contests going on all over the country, and you [00:29:00] can filter it by, if your painting could be sculpture, could be photography.
I mean, the, the, the visual arts can be a, a myriad of different things. And so I would filter it painting, and it can be, if it's a regional. Application and it's in Florida, you're not eligible. I'm in Washington, so obviously I couldn't do Florida, but if I do regional, you know, Northwest, it'll tell you like the northwest it'll tell you if there's national campaigns 'cause anywhere, anywhere in the, in the nation.
And so I filter it and it'll get me down to maybe 40 or 50. And then I'll go, you know, this one I just did a painting. Of a,
guy and of his son watching a baseball game, but I knew that, again, the marketing, you know, that doesn't hurt to . Have some marketing ability with your art, you know, because you gotta, you gotta dovetail your art with what?
The, the contest or the, the. The festival is asking for, so this was summertime activities. So I have a painting that a guy and his son watching a baseball game, so [00:30:00] I applied to that. That's in Providence, Rhode Island. Now I haven't heard back, but I've been been, I had worked in Sedona, long Beach, Newport
Beach, long Island, Philadelphia, and you get in these shows and then, and again, I price them.
I was gonna say, I price 'em reasonably because it's, I'm not in it to make money. Trust me. I don't have the talent that I can make money at art. I can make a few dollars here and there, but I couldn't make a living at it. I mean, it's just, it's not for that. Truly, truly it is to have somebody kind of appreciate it, get a, get a joy from it and put it on their wall, and then they send me a photo and I can see it in their home.
The people that bought my artwork in Edmonds, I happen to run into them and she sent me this, I'll send it to you after the podcast. She sent me the artwork in their home. It's like, this is so great. Something I did is in their house and they like it, so that's really why I do it. But Cafe Art gives you that opportunity.
There's all kinds of ones. I know you, Laura, are into music. There's ones for music, there's, there's photography. Like I said, there's [00:31:00] sculpture. Everything from knitting to, you know, whatever you pursue creatively. , There's resources online now that you can get that work out there and get into festivals.
And again, locally now I've been into a number of local markets and whatnot. Saturday markets through that
[00:31:21] Laura: I love that because, you know, like I think of this from my voice, right? And my voice. I love my voice. I've always had good feedback from my voice. It's my expression and it's a huge expression. And it, and when I perform, I always try to think of it like a gift, like I'm giving a gift and I, I. Yeah, I, I, I bet, and this was Kurt Vonnegut who said this, but he said, you know, because of the way that, that, that culture is now, and, and that mass media is now, we don't have regular singers.
You know, just [00:32:00] good singers. They're not produced and everything. They're just like the local town singer. We don't have that anymore. Everybody's set to the standard of Whitney Houston and blah, blah, blah, and you know what I mean? And so we're missing out on that. And I think, you know, well Spotify and all these different things have really opened it up.
But I'm wondering, yeah, if I submitted, maybe somebody out there would love my voice, you know? And you know, and so that's interesting.
[00:32:25] Tyler: Well, that, that happened wasn't that Billy Eilish and her brother that did a did something in
their
[00:32:29] Laura: is that what they did?
[00:32:30] Tyler: Yeah, I'm pretty sure you can. You can maybe double check that, but I'm pretty sure that's what happened.
Well, I would like to ask you is there anything we've said or I've said that you, you feel like like some more detail on or that we may have missed that you would like to hear more about? Kinda like I said earlier,
[00:32:50] Lisa: Yeah, you're using your client line on me. I, I really resonated with your statements around sincerity. So I'm, I am the local AI curmudgeon for Double [00:33:00] Z, so I appreciated your side on that situation.
[00:33:06] Laura: Yeah, I, I think with, I remember when I was in school just trying to come up with concepts for you know, with copywriting and, and we had to come up with three really good concepts for, for my professor, and it was just learning the creative process. You know, stepping away, coming back, stepping away,
[00:33:26] Tyler: Yeah. Mm-hmm.
[00:33:28] Laura: then it's like you finally get it. But it's like a lot of bandwidth.
[00:33:34] Tyler: Yes.
[00:33:34] Laura: a lot of bandwidth.
[00:33:36] Tyler: I would find that you gotta, this is a longer conversation, maybe it's another podcast because I think you toggle between, let's say right brain, left brain is just a seventies or eighties thing. That wasn't really true. But it, it works as a model. You know, if your left brain is, I think it's right. Brain's more creative, left brain's more analytical. Just use that as a model with creativity in marketing. [00:34:00] Marketing. Not necessarily in music. Music, no, not necessarily. Or often. Not books. Painting. No, but with marketing, you've gotta toggle between the two because it's not there for you to be, it's not there to pat yourself on the back of a good campaign.
It's there to make something successful for that client to pay you that money. That's just the reality. That's you're, you're stealing their money if you're doing it for your benefit. Or to make yourself look good on an award show. In my opinion, , I know that's a big, big comment, but , you're there to make the client successful and their business successful, and it may not be the most erudite thing you'd wanna write.
It might be the best thing for their client base based on their, their product. So you've gotta toggle between two. You've gotta keep on that well-defined path. There was a, a, again, a great quote. I think it was Buckminster Fuller, but I could be wrong. But he said, I used to use this in meetings all the time, and I'd always make sure they didn't, it wasn't my comment, but [00:35:00] give me the freedom of a well-defined path.
[00:35:03] Laura: Hmm.
[00:35:03] Tyler: to me, was bigger than anything else that I could talk about in my, in, in the career I had. Give me the freedom of a well-defined path. So a lot of times if you give people, if, especially as you get older, not necessarily with children, but if you get older, you give somebody a blank piece of paper and you say, draw something.
This is how it is proven. They're like, ah, what? But if I say draw a unicorn, flying over a rainbow, you know, with a, you know, whatever below, boom, you can now have the freedom of a well-defined path, and yours is gonna look different than yours and everybody's gonna have different interpretation, That really is, that is really a key point in marketing.
Set up your goals, set up the product, wins,
[00:35:47] Laura: Yeah. What's success in all that
[00:35:50] Tyler: well, the unique selling proposition. What is it that you deliver that keeps you successful? Ideally, it'll be something big, but sometimes it's, it's a little tiny thing in terms of, [00:36:00] you know, a competitive advantage.
It's not that massive. You're not the only coffee company, so why you, you know, and then. You know, whatever those things that you think will bring in more customers, define those and then work your creativity off that. That's your well-defined path. Keep coming back to that. Keep coming back to that, and you'll stay.
You won't keep wandering off and all of a sudden you have campaign. No idea why that didn't work. Well, it didn't because you didn't follow that well-defined path, and I don't feel that way. This is again, just my opinion. Like I started off this conversation. It's just my opinion, but I don't.
Do that with art. And I don't know that you do that with music so much when you're just wanting to be just totally creative.
[00:36:41] Laura: Oh, right.
[00:36:43] Tyler: But I, I'll be a little bit contradictory when I sell market art fairs. When I actually go and have a little booth. I do do things that I know people will buy. So, so that is kind of a, that's just, again, why do I do that?
Because my wife and I have just a [00:37:00] great time. We meet great people and people send me pictures of my little
pieces of art. And you get to share it
you get to share it,
Yep. And I, I, I'm sorry, but that's exactly what it is. And you know, you know, we make a few bucks, it pays for our trip and whatever.
Sometimes it pays for part doesn't pay for that beautiful hotel room that we stayed in
[00:37:21] Laura: all springs.
[00:37:22] Tyler: and the, and the socks I had to go through just to come in and out of that place. But, you know, it covers a few shekels here and there and, and you had a good time. And you're, , again, you know, one of my credos is create don't observe.
You know, don't sit in the audience. Get up on stage. That doesn't mean to be a narcissist and have everybody pay attention. It just means you have a gift and you can create that. When you watch other people's gifts, you're just, you're just in the audience now, that's fine. That can be inspiring and that can be great concert.
Great. Go to great museum. Absolutely, but don't live that all the time, in my opinion. [00:38:00] Again, my opinion, don't live that all the time. Get up there and get on the stage once in a while. Share your gift,
[00:38:06] Laura: Yep. Yep.
[00:38:07] Tyler: give yourself permission.
[00:38:09] Laura: Yeah. To express yourself and give yourself permission to express yourself. And it's, you know, it's surprising how, I have so many friends that, they have good voices
[00:38:20] Tyler: absolutely.
[00:38:20] Laura: they just don't share and, you know, they're intimidated. And I think, yeah, if you just express yourself, it's like dance, like no one's watching
[00:38:28] Tyler: Absolutely. That's right. There's something that comes out of you that will glo, you know, will build on itself. I know this sounds a little, you know, rah rah, but it really is true. Why not? Why not? Why not? You know, why not? Why not try it? What do you got to lose? And by the way, that momentum will guide you into a much more, in my, in my opinion, a much more fulfilling and enriching and purpose-filled retirement because you're doing stuff that gives, that you can really bring outta yourself.
[00:39:00] So you, you don't ever really feel like you just kind of come up against this. Barrier. Like, now what do I do? I'm, I'm standing here and now I'm, I'm just kind of at the edge of this desert. You've laid out things, you've laid out all kinds of little trails to follow, and, and, and you've got 'em. You know, this is a cliche, but it is absolutely true.
It's a cliche, , like a lot , in art. We went to that Edmonds art festival. They have a kids' room and their art in there is phenomenal and I guarantee you. 50% of those kids or more will probably be 25 years old and say, I don't, I can't draw. I don't know how to do anything. Yes, you do. You absolutely can.
You just allowed yourself, and here's where I was tough. I I could be tough. you could say, well, you know, the world kind of beat it outta me. Yeah. That's an excuse You've allowed yourself to be talked out of it. Be strong, believe in yourself. So, you know, don't buy into that.
But, you know, it may not be that you're, it's gonna be, look, I'm trying to paint a quote. [00:40:00] Picasso said it, it took him a lifetime to learn how to draw like a child. That's Picasso. So I'm trying to paint a lot looser and not so. You know, realistic, and I'm really struggling to do that, , so when you don't think you can paint, you're starting there, you're starting where I'd like to go, and That's no kidding,
[00:40:20] Laura: Mm
[00:40:21] Tyler: loose.
[00:40:22] Laura: mm
[00:40:22] Tyler: don't try to be perfect. Just how it interprets to you. Those
[00:40:27] Laura: Oh, I
love that.
[00:40:28] Tyler: those are real magical things to see, you know.
[00:40:31] Laura: It's almost like you've answered the question that Lisa does at the end of every podcast, but we're still going she's still going to ask it, right, Lisa?
[00:40:39] Lisa: Yes. And see above is a an okay answer, but if you could give yourself back at the beginning of your career one piece of advice, what would it be?
[00:40:51] Tyler: Don't settle. A lot of times I would work on projects and stayed in. A [00:41:00] situation longer than I probably should have because I, I lack confidence or I, I just settled into a routine. I think that fits. I probably would've liked to have thought about going to a bigger city and trying a big agency.
But the more I think about it, that might've been a whole different life for me. And I'm pretty, I'm very blessed with the life I have, so I don't know about that, but, don't settle, I think is the key.
that doesn't, mean being overconfident that you're better, but it just means that, you know, if you feel like you've done as much as you can in that, that situation, move on.
Push yourself
[00:41:42] Laura: yourself. Yeah.
stagnation, I guess, is what I,
[00:41:45] Tyler: I, I probably did that up till about, I was about 32 or
so. I call it flipping the switch. That's, I guess, the last thing I'll leave. That's actually a book I wanted to write, so I'm spoiling that. But you know, on a, on a service [00:42:00] panel for electricity, there's all kinds of little circuit breakers, you know, circuit breakers.
Sometimes you can flip a couple circuit breakers. Maybe that's exercise, or maybe that's your diet, or maybe that's, you know, reaching out to people that. That you need to be better contact with. Your circuit breaker has, has flipped over. You need to flip that back and get better. Sometimes you need to take that knife switch and just chin
and, and, and that's, that's kind of what I did about 32 years old.
I decided on a lot of levels. I was just kind of treading water. I was doing okay as actually some people would say it was doing okay,
but I didn't wanna be my age now and look back and go, you know, I just, I kind of, I kind of floated, I
kind of, I, I call 'em water leafs. You just kind of take where the stream goes,
you know, you're a water leaf, you just kind of go wherever the stream takes you.
So I flipped the switch. I just literally looked at this piece of paper. I wrote down eight things. Somebody came to my office and said, Hey, we're going to lunch. You wanna join us with they're great friends? And I said, you know what? I'm just gonna stay here for a minute and eat in [00:43:00] today. And I looked at that list for about a half hour, 45 minutes, and I just, something slipped, just clicked in my
[00:43:05] Laura: Huh.
[00:43:06] Tyler: and I flipped a switch.
And I said, no more, no more of this, no more of that, more of this, more of that.
[00:43:12] Laura: Hmm. Integrity is what that is. I think when you're meaning integrity is, to me, is when you're true to yourself you can look at yourself in the, you know, you can, you could look yourself and say, this is, this is what I should be doing. This is
[00:43:28] Tyler: Y Yeah, I don't think you can. I don't think you have to be so in love with yourself that you can't kick your own butt
, And so I just decided I'm not happy with what I'm doing here. On a lot of levels. I mean, , I wasn't off on anything major by any means, but, I just needed to reorient about four or five things, and I did, and that day forward, it literally, it literally, the knife Mitch went up and all kinds of things started happening. [00:44:00] And it wasn't overnight, but it just, it was a, a big deal. And ideally you don't have to flip the whole knife switch, you know, the knife, the big blade. You can just, you can say, you know what? I am not really happy with my exercise routine. I'm just seeming to
[00:44:17] Laura: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:17] Tyler: every make time for it. gotta make time for it.
Okay? Toggle that one over
[00:44:22] Laura: Mm-hmm.
[00:44:23] Tyler: on it. You know, your, your watch. It's gonna make you
honor that.
[00:44:27] Laura: thank you so much, Tyler. We are probably going to have to have you on again. You're gonna be a, a regular guest. So
[00:44:37] Tyler: you know? I'm kidding. I'm just teasing.
[00:44:39] Laura: I know it feels, it's so, I, I don't know. I just feel like you have so much to, to offer. And I know our audience being marketing directors they struggle so much with dealing with.
You know, trying to come up with things themselves, hiring other people, and to just get a perspective from someone like you, it's, it's, you know, [00:45:00] it's just super valuable. So thank
[00:45:02] Tyler: Well, thank you. I, I really enjoyed it.
